The board at Ulthera, an aesthetics device company, faced an attractive dilemma. Take the company public? Or accept a lucrative buyout? Hear from the CEO how the company’s culture and approach led to that favorable outcome.
Tom Salemi: Hey, there, everybody, Tom Salemi from the Medtech Talk Podcast. Welcome back to our show. Thanks for joining us. We’re going to visit with one successful CEO. His name is Matt Likens. He was the CEO of Ulthera, an aesthetics company acquired by Merz two years ago for what ultimately will be $600 million, which is a great sum, no matter how you slice it, no matter what the space in medtech. Matt is an interesting fellow. He’s got a great sense of humor, and has a real intentional perspective or a real intentional approach to building culture and leadership. So clearly, it worked for Ulthera. They had a great outcome. And Matt was at our Medtech Conference on June first in Minneapolis and added a great deal there to our consumer panel. So we’re very happy to have him here on the Medtech Talk Podcast to share his pursuit or his approach to building an aesthetics concept, really, an idea into a wildly successful commercial enterprise and a really attractive exit, not only for investors, but for Ulthera employees as well. So hope you enjoy this conversation with Matt Likens.
TS: Well, Matt Likens, welcome to the Podcast.
Matt Likens: Yeah, thank you, Tom, great to be aboard with you.
TS: Very pleased to have you here and have you part of our Medtech Conference, too. It was nice to have you out there and sitting on our consumer panel. Hope that was a rewarding experience for you.
ML: It was for me. And I was really impressed with the array of speakers and panelists that you had, and a great turnout as usual. So everything was very well organized, and plan to attend next year.
TS: Oh, fantastic. It’ll be great to have you back. But of course we had you – well, in addition to your sense of humor, we had you up there because of your recent success. I mean you don’t close on a $600 million deal every day. And you started at Ulthera and led it until its eventual acquisition, recent acquisition by Merz. So I wanted to kind of just get into how you recognized this opportunity and sort of what went into the building of what ultimately was – was it 600 million up front, the whole price tag? Or were there some earnouts that I should be referencing as well to give you your proper due?
ML: Right. It was actually 450 million up front, and then 150 million in milestone payments. And thus far we’ve earned another 75 million of the remaining 150. So we have 3 more $25 million milestones that we are doggedly pursuing as we speak. And in fact, when the deal was consummated in July of 2014, myself and the rest of the senior management team agreed to 2-year retention agreements with Merz. And today, as we speak, this is my last official day with the company. But I think the transition has gone very smoothly and things are on track. So it’s been a great experience.
TS: What is this day like for you? I mean clearly, this has been your life for a decade. And you’re happy with the outcome and it’s found a good home. Is there any bitter to the sweetness?
ML: Not at all.
TS: Come on, you can level with me, Matt.
ML: Yeah. No, let me tell you honestly. I think if I have to provide advice to other entrepreneurs whose businesses are acquired by an outside firm, I would say a one-year retention agreement is probably the appropriate timeframe. Just to make sure that integration happens and the right transition of responsibilities occur. So this second year has been a bit challenging just because I spent most of the time preparing the management team that is remaining here to carry on and fill in those gaps. And at that time, you don’t feel nearly as useful as one might want to feel. So I think one year – so this is great. It couldn’t have come quickly enough.
TS: And yours is a commercial product, so I could say maybe if it’s something that’s still in development and you need to get it over the finish line, you could still contribute in that way. But you’re right, at some point, I suppose someone else can certainly step in and sell this product nearly as well or as well as you might be able to.
ML: Yeah. And in fact, it is commercial. And in fact, at the time of the acquisition, our trailing 12-months revenue was 91 million. And so we really were pleased with the 6.6 times revenue that the 600 million acquisition represented. And in fact, as we finished 2014, we were right around 150 million in global revenue. So and the business today is the largest product line within the Merz portfolio, and it continues to grow at the fastest rate of any of their product lines. So I’m really proud that we didn’t just sell it and then run away. We sold it and made sure it was in good hands and continued to thrive under the new ownership.
TS: That’s terrific. Well, let’s go back to the beginning. How did you come to Ulthera? How did you sort of assess the opportunity? What did you think it was, and did it ultimately – were your projections correct in what Ulthera could create?
ML: Yeah. So my background is J&J for 3 years right out of school, and then Baxter Healthcare for 23 years, ten different positions, many relocations. And then I got one of those calls that you sometimes get in early 2001 from a very well – from a pharma recruiter looking for a senior executive for a very well funded startup in South Florida called GMP Companies. And they had raised $180 million, and 14 different licensing agreements, drugs, diagnostics and devices. And it was at GMP, the first startup that I was part of, where I learned everything not to do in a startup. So I don’t want to dwell on that. If you want to explore that a little more, I’d be happy to say a little about it.
TS: Give me two – yeah, give me two things you wouldn’t do in a startup.
ML: OK, so for instance, I think it was a great platform, where you had a group of 75 to 100 people developing 14 technologies. But the CEO at the time was intent upon treating each of these 14 almost as if they were your children, right? And you don’t want to show favoritism to any particular child, so you try to treat them all relatively equally. Well, that’s fine for children, not so great if you’re trying to manage a portfolio of technologies. So even though a number of us strongly suggested that gee, these 2 or 3 technologies have great promise and are probably closer to regulatory clearances and commercialization, and if we focus most of our resources on them and move them forward, they could likely then provide revenue and margins to support select others. You know, portfolio management concept, right? But he would have none of that. So that’s one example. I think focusing resources on the most promising opportunities that you have is really critical, even if you’re very well funded.
TS: That’s a good lesson for sure. Sometimes you do need to play favorites.
TS: Except with your children, of course, you’re right.
ML: You’re right, of course.
TS: So how did you make the leap there to Ulthera? Or was there a step in between?
ML: No, there wasn’t. So I left there after 5 years. The first CEO had been replaced by a banker from Goldman Sachs, a brilliant choice. And she and I actually raised a round of financing for the business that I ended up running, which was GMP Wireless Medicine, using Motorola technology for wireless EKGs with a disposable lead set on the patient, and then hooking into a transmitter that could transmit vital signs up to 100 feet away with Bluetooth class 2. And you could untether patients from bedside monitors in critical care units or emergency rooms. Great technology. And in fact, I understand that company still exists and is operating today. But at that point, we raised a round of financing for Wireless in April of 06, and it was time for me to depart. So I came to Ulthera because frankly, I needed a job.
TS: That’s a good reason to go.
ML: Yeah. My daughter was just finishing her senior year in high school. She needed to have college paid for. Our son was just getting out of college. And also I always wanted to be a CEO and had not, just because I felt like I had learned a lot and I could apply it maybe effectively and hopefully galvanize the right types of people to joint the team. And Ulthera offered that opportunity out of Mesa, Arizona, of all places.
TS: Now, if I remember correctly, you were a commercial guy, and sort of saw Ulthera as a commercial opportunity. But did it meet your expectations or – why don’t we get into the move into Ulthera?
ML: Yeah. So I actually – I heard about the opportunity through a former J&J colleague who knew the head of early stage investments in the US for the London based private equity firm, 3I. And 3I had made an early investment in Ulthera, about five and a half million dollars in November of 2005. And so one thing led to another, and like everything else, Tom, it’s connections: not what you know, but who you know. And so I had the opportunity to come out to Arizona and meet the founder of the company, Dr. Michael Slayton. And Michael grew up in Moscow in the Soviet Union, you know, in the 60’s and 70’s. But a brilliant scientist. Got his PhD in acoustics from Kiev State University in the Ukraine. And he had actually been working for about 4 years with J&J’s Ethicon Endosurgery on a way to image tissue – and they were focused on liver cancer – and then focus ultrasound thermal energy to ablate that liver cancer in a remote way. So in a noninvasive way. So that kind of ran its course, and then Michael decided this had better opportunities in the world of aesthetics, and he was looking for a CEO because a 510K had already been sent into the FDA. And as I talked to Michael and he said, Yeah, I need somebody and they have to have a commercial background. We’re going to get clearance in the next 90 days. When can you start? And then three and a half years later, we actually got FDA clearance. So it was wonderful.
TS: But you went in there thinking the commercial opportunity would come a lot more quickly than it did. What were some of the adjustments you sort of had to make to get Ulthera’s product on the market?
ML: Yeah. So knowing that we probably had a bit of a long slog ahead of us with the FDA, mainly because of the innovative nature of our technology. And in fact there really was not an identified predicate device, which is always a challenge. So we started to focus our attention on getting a CE Mark, and maybe getting out in the marketplace earlier outside the US than we could expect to achieve with FDA. So that helped. And then we sponsored several clinical trials to validate the fact that we could actually accomplish noninvasive firming, tightening and lifting of facial skin tissue. And fortunately, the clinical studies went beautifully. This is a very effective treatment, and we slowly but surely generated the type of data that the FDA was looking for. And in the meantime, in the second half of 2008, roughly 2 years after I joined the company. We got our CE Mark and sold our first ten systems along with 36 disposables, and generated our first $500,000 of revenue. So it was delayed, but I actually think starting outside the US was the best thing that happened to us.
TS: How did you structure those clinical trials? I remember them being somewhat of a unique process.
ML: Yeah. The first one that we did, we actually started about 3 weeks after I joined the company. And that was at Northwestern. Dr. Murad Alam, who’s the director of the dermatology group there helped us really structure them. And you know, in aesthetics, it’s a completely different ballgame than therapeutics. So you’re really looking at patients and photographs, you know, before treatment and post treatment. So alignment of the patient and absolutely pristine photographic techniques are required, as well as very accurate measuring devices, so that you can really have an apples to apples comparison with position of skin tissue prior to treatment, 30 days post, 60 days post, and even 180 days post treatment to really measure and ascertain what the change has been.
TS: Did the trials produce any surprises? Or did everything pan out as you anticipated?
ML: Yeah, the surprise was the consistency of the efficacy of the treatment. You know, coming after being in blood collection and transfusion medicine and hemophilia, dialysis, immunotherapy, Baxter’s motto all my years there, critical therapies for life-threatening conditions. You know, you really – we probably took ourselves a little too seriously. And then when you move over to aesthetics, it’s a little more moderate as far as what the expectations are. So you’re trying to make people look better, and then they can feel better about how they look. But no one’s dying. It’s all cash pay. It’s completely different environment. And unfortunately, the field of aesthetics from a technology standpoint has been more characterized by snake oil and failed promises than true science and a therapeutic mind set. So that was a huge difference and the fact that our technology created very consistent cosmetic improvements on patients really set us apart. In fact, over the years, we’ve done over 50 studies. We have 45 published peer-reviewed papers, really documenting the science behind. And we’re really beginning the process of building new collagen as a result of – in a very controlled fashion, and salting the tissue at various depths with thermal energy below the surface of the skin.
TS: And did the clinical trial requirements, that came from the FDA? Were they too looking to move past the snake oil imagery and really have – produce some or require some rigor from this specialty? Or did those demands for the clinical trials that you did really come from within because you wanted to have the data to really drive the point home when you began marketing?
ML: Yeah, originally it came from within, but as we interacted more with the FDA, we realized that they were absolutely on board. And in fact, a big part of our 510K submissions had a piece to do with patient satisfaction as well. So it wasn’t just good enough to show that you had a quantitative improvement in the position of the brow or the lower face and neck, or improvement in fine lines and wrinkles of the décolletage. We had to make sure that not only could we measure that, but patients were also satisfied that they got their desired improvement. So that was great. And we feel like we really led the charge in kind of transforming aesthetic medicine into a more scientifically and clinically based approach.
TS: How large were your trials?
ML: We ended up – gee, with the first two trials, over 300 patients treated. Now that’s not a lot if you’re talking about a therapeutic area. But in aesthetics, that was large. And especially with the consistency of the results. We didn’t have to do thousands of patients to prove the efficacy. It was very apparent. You asked about was it intentional. And in fact, when I started at Ulthera and got a little more knowledge about the aesthetics business, we decided that we needed to have at least one what Jim Collins from – the author of Good to Great and a number of other really fabulous books from Stanford – from Stanford calls big, hairy, audacious goals. And sometimes these are aspirational in nature, and sometimes they’re – you could achieve them, but it’s going to take a grand effort in order to get there. So we thought first off, well, let’s be that aesthetics company that gives you a result you can count on. So let’s have 100% treatment efficacy as our first big, hairy, audacious goal. And everybody thought, well, you’re crazy. You know, no one – everybody is different, all these patients. And so it’s impossible that 100% of the patients will have the desired clinical effect. But as we thought about it, well, that may be true, but if that’s not your goal, then why are you even doing this? And so I think over time we estimate that our efficacy is in the high 90s range. And that’s from refining the technology and the treatment guidelines and protocols, but we’re really proud of that record. And then having been at Baxter for all those years, and Baxter is very much a financially oriented company, at least it was in my tenure there, we needed something numeric. And so we thought, well, let’s create a billion dollars in value with Ulthera. And actually the two big, hair, audacious goals fit nicely together. We felt the higher we could drive efficacy, the more valuable our enterprise would become. So actually we failed at both. We didn’t get to 100% efficacy, and we didn’t get to a billion dollars in value, but if we hadn’t had those really ambitious goals, I don’t think we would have achieved as much as we did.
TS: Hey, everybody, Tom here. Just want to remind you to go to the medtechconference.com website, sign up for the Medtech Talk Newsletter. You will get our original medtech coverage including future podcasts and our original video content. Just go to medtechconference.com, sign up for the Medtech Talk Newsletter. We really just need your email, and you will be kept in the loop. Now back to this conversation with Matt Likens.
TS: Did the clinical data, was that important to the physicians that you sold to? Did they really require that kind of information to buy into Ulthera’s story?
ML: Yeah. I think there’s maybe 100 key opinion leaders that you have to convince, first of all that you’re not going to cause harm to their patients, and then the more confident they are, based on your clinical studies that you can really provide significant value and improvement to their patients, you know, if you can get past those hundred, then there are thousands of other physicians that are ready to adopt a technology. So it really was important. And I think we got a lot of kudos in the marketplace for the solid science that we had behind it. Now Dr. Lisa Meisel was our VP of Clinical Medical Affairs. She is still at Merz today, and she’s got a PhD in biochemistry from Berkeley. She had been at Suniva Medical and Allergan and Kinimed before we lured her to Ulthera. And she and her team just did a fabulous job of setting up clinicals and knocking them down and documenting the results and working closely with regulatory to then get expanded indications for our technology. So it was a great team effort.
TS: What challenges did you face ramping up the commercial sales?
ML: The big challenge was the amount of cynicism in the marketplace. These same key opinion leaders had been – I won’t say fooled before, but just let’s say disappointed.
TS: There’s been a lot of attempts in this area.
ML: Yeah. A host of very promising technologies that ultimately were disappointing as far as the lack of efficacy and consistency of results. So that was huge to overcome. And also we were the first focused ultrasound technology in this marketplace. So there was very little knowledge about it, and some fear and trepidation as a result of the lack of knowledge. So there was an educational process that needed to go by that we needed to embrace. But the fact was that once we got through those first couple of hundred adopters, this was a tremendous source of revenue and profit generation for the aesthetic practices, you know, dermatologists, plastic surgeons, facial plastics. And it was actually a very compelling economic argument, and sales really began to explode.
TS: And the fear was centered around the use of ultrasound technology, just because they weren’t familiar with that?
ML: Yeah. And this is combined with imaging, which was really cool, and I think helped get us over the hump. Because we’re imaging down to 8 millimeters of depth, so from the surface of the skin on down. And so you’re really confirming while you’re doing the treatment, in real time, that there’s nothing underneath the skin that you should be worried about. You know, as far as a tumor or a vessel or something that might cause you to not want to treat that. So Rox Anderson from Mass General and the Wellman Institute for Photo Medicine, who’s kind of the guru as far as dermatology and the energy based technology that address these issues, felt that – I think his quote was that we were the first company who could unblind the physicians as to what they were accomplishing and what they were able to see below the surface of the skin prior to treating. And he felt that was a major step forward as far as safety.
TS: So you introduced the product to physicians, you began to get some traction. How did you – what philosophy did you adopt going forward in operating the company and turning it into a real commercial enterprise?
ML: Yeah. Well, Tom, having spent all that time at J&J, Baxter, the failed startup that I mentioned before, you know, you have lessons learned along the way. And so I felt that Ulthera offered a real opportunity to apply those lessons learned. And so I mentioned the big, hairy, audacious goals. Second thing that I think was really important was we had 5 operating principles originally, and they expanded to 7. And they all start with the letter C. And I think they provided a real direction for the company, and everybody knew what we stood for as a company. So Customer Focus was number one. Really important because if we sell a system to a customer, we have to do that as at least a ten-year relationship. This technology is going to expand in value over that period of time. This is a long term relationship. And so our goal as a company, we said we wanted to bring more value to the relationship every year of ownership. New transducers to treat at different depths, new treatment protocols, new FDA clearances, marketing support for the practices so they could better commercialize within their local community. On and on. And so that philosophy was really core. Second, Consistency. Not just clinical results, but also pricing strategies because all the physicians talk to one another. So we had one price for our system. And either that worked for you or it didn’t, but we would not go – and one price for our disposable. We felt like that was really important. Third, we embraced a concept called Constructive Confrontation. And so whether it was me as a CEO or any of my direct reports, if somebody had a better idea, or someone didn’t understand what we were doing, or someone had a real issue with what we were doing, please, let’s talk about it. I mean this is not – I don’t need to be right. We just want to do the right thing. So I think that helped as well. We had great communication. We were able to hire really talented people. Cost effectiveness was important as well. Just managing – and every employee had a piece of ownership with stock options. And so because of that, we could say, Treat it like your own business. OK. And don’t be cheap, but frugal is OK. Compliance, Creativity, and Collaboration were the other three. And again, it set the tone for the company. During the six month and twelve-month performance reviews, every supervisor and subordinate has a discussion about how are you following the seven operating principles? Are there things you could be doing differently? And it really – we didn’t have wallet cards, we didn’t have it slapped over walls. It was just the way we operated the company. It was very powerful.
TS: I was going to ask: you’re not at a stage where you have that Monday morning meeting, and you have the Power Point slide up there for them to look at. You’re running on all cylinders. You can’t really message that much through those obvious means. So beyond the feedback from supervisors, were there any other ways that you really kind of kept everybody on message and kept them on culture?
ML: First of all, I behaved that way. And so this sounds small, but how many times have you been in an organization where you’re hearing one thing and you’re seeing another thing? So as I was flying around the world, helping set up distributors in the 65 countries that we ended up doing business in, I was flying coach everywhere because the moment I upgraded to business, somebody’s going to find out about it. And that’s not necessarily frugal, right? So just setting the example every day. And then making sure there are people not operating in that fashion that, you know, privately, you call it out, you change the behavior, or maybe this isn’t the best place for them to work. You know. So and just that direct communication I think reinforces it. And people felt really good being here. And they loved having a piece of ownership. And also, we loved having it there too because those stock options vested over 4 years. So it was a retention tool for us as well.
TS: Sure. How much did you ultimately raise from investors?
ML: $40 million.
TS: OK, so that’s an incredibly low amount. Can you attribute a lot of that to just the constant encouragement of cost containment and frugality?
ML: I would. And also we were blessed with attractive gross margins. So as we succeeded commercially, we were able to fund some of our growth needs internally, versus looking for additional funding outside. And we actually executed an acquisition in early 2014 as well, which –
TS: That’s right, that’s right.
ML: – yeah.
TS: What was the company, and was your plan at the time to be a standalone aesthetics company, and really to build something much bigger in the market?
ML: It was that exactly, Tom, that we felt like having a one technology platform, even though it was capital and then a growing array of disposables, revenue, as an annuity that came in, we didn’t want to only be tied to that one technology. So we were looking on a continuing basis for other things that we might be able to also commercialize. But they had to meet the same criteria. They had to provide consistent results, they had to bring real value to practices, and we had to be confident, you know, that they would actually do what we said they would do. And Cabochon Aesthetics was the opportunity that fit all of those, and in fact Merz is in the first year of commercialization of that technology for the treatment of cellulite right now. And it’s just going really well. That’s the next source of growth for Merz globally. The technology is called Cellfina.
TS: That’s terrific. So how did you then shift from we’re going to build an aesthetics company, and you did file to go public, into eventually deciding to sell to Merz?
ML: Yeah. So in 2008, like I mentioned, first revenue, 500,000, and then we got Health Canada clearance in May of 09, FDA finally September 11 of 2009. Revenue in 09 was 5 million. 2010, 18 million. 2011, 41 million. 2012, 59 million. 2013, 83 million. 2014, we ended up with 118 million. And beginning in 11, we eked out about a $200,000 EBIT in ’11 on the 41 million in revenue. And then we were positive EBIT from that point forward. And in fact, in ’14 we had an $18 million EBIT. So once we were confident that we could sustain profitability, we felt like that was really powerful and we could withstand the scrutiny of the public markets. And with the growing annuity revenue stream, we felt like our results were very predictable. So that’s when we decided to file an S1 document after a lot of pre-work, you know, with KPMG and Deloitte and Touche and a number of lawyers to get that done. And our intention was fully to go public. And we felt like we had a good story and with the Cabochon acquisition, another opportunity for growth associated with the company. So you know, when you file under the JOBS Act, so all of your documentation, 300 pages, were in the S1 document is confidential. But we got a very challenging reviewer at the SEC. So we were on our third amendment to the S1 document based upon questions that they would ask us. And at that point, the information became non-confidential, and everybody had access to it. And so it was April-May of 2014 when the information became public, and we actually had 3 companies that expressed interest in acquiring Ulthera. They liked the growth rate, the liked the margins, but I think the most attractive thing is it was a very predictable business, and it was already sustainably profitable. And at that point, there was a big of an auction going on, and Merz ended up being the most aggressive of the 3 potential acquirers. And when we got to the final agreement, it was really a bit of a tug of war in the board room because wait a minute, but this company’s going to be an outstanding public company. Are you sure it’s the right time to sell? And it was a tough decision. But once it was done, we really haven’t looked back on it, and they’ve been a very good acquirer. And they’re focused on our business.
TS: Would you have liked to have led a public company? Or are you fine with not having that on your resume? Or that experience behind you?
ML: Yeah, I mean it would have been interesting, Tom, but at the same time, part of our philosophy that’s – it’s certainly never supposed to be about me. And it really hasn’t been. So it really was irrelevant as to whether I wanted to run a public company. It was what’s the right thing to do for the business and for the enterprise overall, and the employees and the shareholders and the board members. And so that’s how the decision was made.
TS: That’s terrific. Well, it’s a great story and a success story that I think we all should look to and appreciate your giving us an overview of how it all came together.
ML: Hey, can I tell you just one other piece to it?
TS: Sure, of course.
ML: So it was about 3 years ago, in fact a little over that now, we were having – like January of 2013, and we were having our global business conference where we bring all the employees in. And our assistant here, Terry Barnhill, had seen this great speaker at a conference that her husband attended. She said, you know, he talks about purpose. And in fact, he’s co-written a book about purpose and they document a number of companies that had done really well, that have taken the time and effort to establish a broader purpose for their company other than growing sales or growing profits. And so I think he’d be a great speaker. His name is Rory Spence. And so Rory had been the founder and principal of an advertising agency out of Austin, Texas for 30 years, and they had Wal-Mart and Southwest Airlines and the US Naval Academy, and a number of other high profile clients over the years. So Rory comes and speaks to us, and he’s got this deep, Texas drawl, you know, and it’s just like he reels you in. And he’s talking about, you know, I’ve done a lot of work on purpose. And he’s showing pictures of himself with George Bush and – both George Bushes, and Bill Clinton, you know. So this guy has a lot of friends in high places. He builds his credibility with us. And he – shit, I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about Ulthera, and Ulthera’s more than a brow lift and it’s more than a lower face and neck lift. He says, Ulthera’s purpose is all about lifting lives. You know, and it was like you’re at an evangelical tent, you know, revival meeting. So we all jumped to our feet and say, Yes, yes, we’re all about lifting lives, you know. And the next day, as we got up and we’re sitting around the breakfast table, saying really? Is that what we’re about? But sure enough, over about 6 months, we said, That’s what we should be about: improving self esteem of the patients who get treated. And then let’s look for areas within our local community where we can lift the lives of school children and other people that we come into contact with. So we did establish a purpose 3 years ago of lifting lives. And it relates to our business; more importantly, it relates to our philanthropic efforts here. And it’s been very meaningful for the company. So I didn’t want to leave without at least mentioning that, and I would encourage any company – yeah, hey, you know, once you’re sustainable, I think you have the luxury to think maybe a little bit bigger about other things that you might be able to stand for as an organization.
TS: I think that’s important. Even with our contents and our conferences, I think we try to remember that we want to provide experiences that really make people feel positive and productive about what they’re doing and ways of being successful. And I think it’s important to kind of keep an eye on the bigger picture. So I think that’s a great final note.
ML: Well, you guys do a great job of bringing the patient perspective and patient impact that you’re having, you know, as you organize the Medtech Conference each year. And I appreciate that.
TS: Terrific. Well, thank you again for your time and I hope we’ll hear from you again once you’ve taken a little bit of time off after Merz.
ML: That’s right, I need a job again. So who knows what next? I have to figure out what I want to be when I grow up.
TS: Oh, anyone can email opportunities to me at firstname.lastname@example.org and I’ll hook you up with Matt. I’ll get a retainer fee, of course.
ML: Thank you, Tom. It’s worth it. It’s worth it. Thank you.
TS: Take care, Matt.
ML: OK, take care.
TS: Hey, Matt Likens, thank you for joining us on the Medtech Talk Podcast. It was a pleasure to have you here. Great to have you at our Medtech Conference, and look forward to speaking with you again in the future. Medtech Talk Podcast listeners, thank you again for joining us for this tale of innovation. Very happy to bring you the story of Ulthera, I think a really big win in the medtech space. Like to ask you who would you like to hear on the Medtech Talk Podcast? If you have some suggestions, or just some feedback on the Podcast, go to my Twitter feed, @medtechtom, so it’s @medtechtom on Twitter, and just send along a message or a tweet, if you’d like, as to what kind of stories you’d like to hear on this podcast. I’m very eager to hear more from our community and to understand what leaders we need to hear more from as well. So thanks again for joining us on this Medtech Talk Podcast episode, and tune in next week for another tale of innovation. Take care, everybody.